Legislature(2005 - 2006)CAPITOL 124
04/18/2005 01:00 PM House RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Overview: Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission | |
| HCR7 | |
| HB9 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HCR 7 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 9 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 241 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HB 9-HYDROGEN ENERGY RESEARCH PROGRAM CO-CHAIR RAMRAS announced that the final order of business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 9 "An Act establishing the Hydrogen Energy Partnership in the Department of Commerce, Community, and Economic Development; requiring the commissioner of commerce, community, and economic development to seek public and private funding for the partnership; providing for the contingent repeal of an effective date; and providing for an effective date." REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said a similar bill has passed out of the House in a prior session, and HB 9 creates a repository for grant money for hydrogen research and development projects. Hydrogen can be our next Prudhoe Bay, he said, because it is a medium for storage and movement of alternative energy, including tidal, wind, and geothermal power. 2:04:28 PM REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said, "We believe that it's the fuel of the future." CO-CHAIR RAMRAS said the fiscal note indicates that federal funds would be found, and if they were not available, HB 9 would be repealed. He asked what provisions would be repealed. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said the project will not spend general funds. If there is no grant money, it will go away, he said. 2:05:55 PM PAUL MORGAN, Energy Manager, Golden Valley Electric Association, Alternative Energy Team, Fairbanks, said hydrogen has huge potential as Alaska's energy future and as an exportable technology. Golden Valley feels that HB 9 is a good idea, and notes that it is supported by the Alaska Energy Policy Task Force. He said hydrogen has a low freezing point so it would work nicely in Fairbanks. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD showed a small gizmo with a fan running on a photovoltaic panel which turns water into hydrogen, and he said as long as the sun is shining, the wind is blowing, or the water is running, it will be in perpetual motion. 2:08:22 PM BILL LEIGHTY, Alaska Applied Science, Inc., said the gizmo is not perpetual motion, but it is hydrogen stored in a small pipeline. Hydrogen is not an energy source, and an energy source is needed to make the hydrogen, he explained. He said Alaska's niche in the emerging hydrogen sustainable energy sector is that we may have opportunities to bring Alaska's resources, both fossil and renewable, to distant markets by a pipeline or other means of compressing or liquefying hydrogen. "We may also be able to demonstrate ... storage of hydrogen at a large scale, either in geologic formations or in very large tanks filled with the abundant zeolites that we have as mineral resources here in the state." He noted that villages are functionally islands, and he said research in Norway is demonstrating the interface between wind power, hydrogen to store the energy, and then various ways of converting it back into electricity as it's needed." He said that HB 9 would facilitate a partnership and offer opportunities for Alaska to serve as a research and production location for the new technology. He cautioned that HB 9 shouldn't be looked at as just a way to garner federal funds to support something that is just within Alaska. The state should partner with the Department of Energy. 2:11:17 PM MR. LEIGHTY said Canada, the U.S. Department of Energy, and some states have made hydrogen road maps, and Alaska might do this to see what its strategic advantage is. He cautioned that transmission and storage of hydrogen is difficult and expensive, because of its low energy density. 2:12:26 PM REPRESENTATIVE GATTO said the premise is that the amount of energy from the sun, wind, or water is greater than what can be turned into hydrogen, so why make it, he asked. MR. LEIGHTY said energy should be used in the form that is most convenient at the site where the energy is made, but Alaska has more abundant resources than it can use in a particular locale, and others need the energy, so it might be possible to export stranded renewable resources as hydrogen. Any time you convert energy you lose energy, he said. 2:14:39 PM REPRESENTATIVE GATTO said he read that hydrogen cars lose fuel sitting still. MR. LEIGHTY explained that most car manufacturers have abandoned the technology of liquid hydrogen, which is lost as a gas. The high-pressure hydrogen stored in carbon filament wound gaseous containers will not lose energy, he said. 2:16:42 PM REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked about new solid-state technology not at high pressure. MR. LEIGHTY said that is applicable for vehicles. The solid form is more attractive because of less pressure, but it is not yet competitive with the high-pressure technology, he added. 2:18:02 PM SARA FISHER-GOAD, Alaska Energy Authority, said the fiscal note for HB 9 requires receipt authority through the Department of Commerce to get the program started. The plan is to hire a person to staff the partnership and apply for federal grants. She does not see how HB 9 will be a burden on the general fund; the money would come from a utility or private funder. There are conditional effective dates that repeal the act if the federal money doesn't pan out, she said. 2:20:16 PM CHRIS ROSE, Executive Director, Renewable Energy Alaska Project (REAP), said REAP is a coalition of utility companies, environmental groups, consumer groups, and businesses who promote renewable energy. The group supports the bill for a number of reasons, he said. He noted that everyone uses hydrogen in other forms, such as wood, coal, or any fossil fuel. The society is moving toward a pure form of hydrogen, which is clean. There are questions about storage and transportation, and this is one area where Alaska can do research and development, he suggested. He said there are many stand alone villages in Alaska that can generate their own hydrogen rather than importing expensive diesel, he said. He concluded that HB 9 could be the beginning of a hydrogen road map for Alaska. 2:22:55 PM MR. ROSE said Alaska has many energy resources. The Aleutian Islands probably have 99 percent of the class 7 winds in North America, and anything class 4 and above is commercially viable. He also mentioned Alaska's geothermal energy as a resource for making hydrogen fuel. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD cited an idea of a hydrogen pipeline from the Aleutians to Japan with wind generators along the way to fill the pipeline. 2:24:12 PM REPRESENTATIVE GATTO said the fiscal note looks like the state is spending about $250,000 from three different departments. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said they're not additive, "its all the same one and it's program-receipts related. If they don't get the money from the grants to start this project, it doesn't get started. There's no general fund money going to it." 2:25:39 PM MS. FISHER-GOAD said, "This is a Department of Commerce program, and commerce has requested that the Alaska Energy Authority be the point agency." The first fiscal note from commerce is the intake of the statutory designated program receipts, and those would be from a private entity. The second fiscal note is to the Alaska Energy Authority, which is interagency receipts from the Department of Commerce. The third fiscal note recognizes that the Alaska Industrial Development and Energy Authority does not have staff, so by requiring a person, a fiscal note is required. The fiscal notes are just a way for the legislature to see how money would flow, and it is not from the general fund. 2:27:12 PM REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked who is going to cough up the money. MS. FISHER-GOAD said there are potential private sources. 2:28:04 PM REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS said if the money doesn't appear it may become a burden on the general fund. He asked if the state will get money if the project is successful. MS. FISHER-GOAD explained that if the funding isn't secured with federal or private sources the partnership will be repealed, and there will be no drain on the general fund at all. 2:29:31 PM REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS finds it hard to believe that the legislature wouldn't get asked for money if the grants don't happen. MS. FISHER GOAD said the way the bill is structured, she doesn't see where AEA would request money from the general fund. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON explained that another bill would have to offered, and the current legislature can't put conditions on future legislation to block hydrogen research. 2:31:07 PM REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said it is not the intent to burden the general fund; repealers are built in. "I don't know how to make it any clearer." It would take a separate bill to ever fund this partnership, he said. 2:31:56 PM CO-CHAIR RAMRAS noted that HB 9 will go to the finance committee. REPRESENTATIVE GATTO said that members of the partnership will serve without compensation, but they are authorized for travel. He wants to know where the money is coming from, and he is concerned about paying benefits. He said he didn't want to support a bill that spent money or hired new employees. 2:33:49 PM REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said it is private money, and members of the board are not part of any retirement system. REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER said she served on boards and never received PERS. 2:34:41 PM REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said typical boards and commissions do not qualify for retirement benefits. REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER said the $95,000 is not coming out of general funds, and it is a good case of spend now and save later. She noted that the state spends an exorbitant amount on subsidizing rural Alaska's diesel fuel. She pointed out that the legislature is willing to appropriate a lot of money to Arctic Power to just lobby to drill the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. "This pales to the money given to them," she said. We do a lot of lip service to alternative energy, she noted, and this is a step in the right direction. 2:36:36 PM REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS will support the bill because Representative Crawford introduced it, but he wants it on the record that, "Once we're hooked, we're hooked." REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked how per diem and travel will be paid. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said if the railbelt utilities don't pitch in, it will not get off the ground. The program has to find the money first, and the state is only hooked if the legislature passes another bill. This same bill passed unanimously twice last year, he noted. 2:37:32 PM CO-CHAIR RAMRAS said he is a big fan of alternative energy. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON moved to report HB 9 out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. There being no objection, HB 9 was passed out of committee.
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